The Shar-Pei Forums-Health Behavior Diet & Rescue Info and Discussion Group

I love Go ! The canned doesn't stink , I Buy assorted Cans for travel and I use the Go Dry for cats! They have a very good reputation .
I by Go, Fromm, even Merrick in cans.

I am not positive just yet, but I really think Tobler's problem is grains.
We are changing him over to the Natural Balance Sweet Potato and Chicken and he seems to be ok so far. I thought he was allergic to chicken and all along it was probably grains. He has been eating grain-free for 3 years. You would think I would have figured that out sooner.

Hey, another PacNW person! You can go without commercial food. I think you have got a lot of good suggestions here. Have you considered going with a completely raw diet, rather than some of these cooked recipes? Any particular reason you have been avoiding raw?

The nice thing about a raw diet is that it is easy for them to digest, and if you can use organic meats, easier on the liver. It seems like a Turkey-based raw diet might be a good choice for your boy, considering his liver issues.

Another benefit of a raw diet is that it can help maintain a clean mouth. Hard, dry food does literally nothing to clean teeth (do your teeth feel cleaner after munching crackers?) Raw, meaty bones can help remove plaque and maintain teeth through enzyme and mechanical action. If your boy has broken teeth on large or hard bones, there are other softer options, like turkey wing and necks, lamb shanks and beef knuckles. My Ollie broke a tooth on a hard bone, but we continue to use them, as he is approaching 10 and has never needed a tooth cleaning (though he did need an extraction due to his tooth break being severe). We also use raw meaty bones for our pomeranian, who like all toy dogs, accumulates plaque at an astounding rate. We give him duck and chicken necks a few times a week, and he blows the vets mind with the cleanliness of his teeth!

There are options out there for you. I personally see no reason to stick with commercial diets, which you 1) have no control over the ingredients or their quality and 2) provide fewer benefits for oral health or digestion. A raw diet can be complete, supportive, and inexpensive!

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Rachel,Tobler is a liver dog and red meat is not good for them..Raw is out for a liver Shunt dog.Way to hard to judge the protein intake.It can make them very ill fast.They have to limit protein.Plus he has IBD so another problem with the type and amt. of protein he gets.

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Ah, I didn't see that his liver issue was so bad. I have done some reading on raw and liver disease (not failure) dogs, indicating that a raw diet is actually better for a liver dog, as, by volume, the protein is lower (due to so much more water in the meat) and in a more bioaccessible form that is not as taxing on the liver. The same is true for IBD, which can often be caused by preservatives and additives in commercial diets that are absent from home-cooked and raw diets.

As for the red meat on a raw bone, I doubt the few ounces of meat left on a beef knuckle or lamb-shank would be enough to damage the liver, but you could always use a turkey wing or neck instead, as it is really the enzymatic action of the meat and the mechanical action of the grinding bone that make the difference.

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An Ibd dog can only tolerate a specific protein ..You try novel proteins and find what they can tolerate..Its not the same for any one dog...Its not a general fact its very specific to each dog..

The liver Shunt dog/MVD is also specific and red meat can cause them to spiral down fast.You have to be very careful to feed foods that will not add toxins or aid in building up ammonia..Again it's not in a general approach but very specific to there problems and to the dog.

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I agree that IBD is very case specific (and also a very general, rather junky diagnosis), which is why it surprises me that people use commercial diets, where you have, literally, no control over the quality or quantity of ingredients. Why not go with a homecooked or raw diet where you have absolute control and easily digestible, natural ingredients?

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Rachel Amy was told not to feed home cooked by an expert..The other info is coming from liver shunt experts..His teeth are bad as well..
Just an example Tobler could not even tolerate Dr.Dodds liver diet...

Amy is doing a great job of finding what does work for Tobler.

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i am just making recommendations based on what was posted here. none of what you just said was mentioned in the post. I would be hesitant of any expert that suggested a commercial kibble for a diseased dog, but that is just my philosophy and the philosophy of my vets. We are all just trying to help Amy help her dog...and I can't help but bmw that Amy hasn't responded at all. i would love to here more from Amy about Tobler and his situation.

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Rachel if you read from the start of this thread Amy tells about all these facts...

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I did see bad teeth, but again, there are ways around that with things like raw poultry necks and backs, which have very soft and digestible bones, which have the added bonus of calcium, which we know, is a binder.

There was no mention of an expert opinion, only that one version of the homecooked diet didn't work. I would love to have had more information about how the transition to homecooked was done, at what rates, any IBD support given during the transition, etc (Amy, I would love to talk more with you about this in this thread!). IBD dogs need a lot of support to maintain and ideally restore the digestive tract, especially during any kind of dietary transition.

I would also like to point out that a raw diet is not the same as a homecooked diet, and for some IBD dogs, is much easier, because the food is bioactive and easier to digest. There are a lot of options out there for feeding dogs with IBD and liver issues, and, since the Amy indicated interest in trying to move away from processed food for her dog, I would love to have the opportunity to talk more with HER, publicly on the forum, about her dog and diet. I applaud any owner who is trying to get away from processed foods, and I am happy Amy found a diet that is working for her, but I am happy to help her explore other options for transition, if she wants to.

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Your coming in after the fact..She has expert advice one being Dr Tintle and liver Shunt experts.....THey all have many years of experience..Amy is making sure all his needs are met...Plus keeping all his problems at bay...

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BusyPei, I am sure the OP can speak for herself. I originally responded to the OP, not to you. I am not exactly sure why you feel you need to respond for her, but if this exchange need never have happened. If Amy had never responded, the thread would have died. Yes, I came in after the fact, and would STILL love to discuss Amy's thoughts on leaving kibble behind. There is room for many viewpoints on this forum, and lots of discussion. Please, in the future, allow the OP to speak for themselves (as that is who I am interested in communicating with), it would free up a lot of everybody's time.

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Your not getting it Amy has his foods figured out...
If your help was need she would of responded..
I was trying to give you facts that all..

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I am so sorry that this thread has caused a problem. My original post came before consulting with Dr. Tintle. I was trying to let the thread die down. All issues have been addressed by my vet and Dr. Tintle and Tobler is doing better than he was 3 months ago. His liver enzymes (ALT) are down from 327 to 166 and he is eating a balanced, low protein, low fat Natural Balance diet which has chicken as the protein source. I am not interested in pursuing a home cooked or raw diet any longer and I'm sorry that I didn't say that sooner.

Sandra knows Tobler's entire history. She was just trying to make sure that someone didn't see this thread and follow advice that would be fine for a healthy dog, but not for a dog with liver disease.

-Amy

I am glad you found a diet that is working for you and your dog. It is important to remember that this is a discussion board, and it is not the role of any one person on the board to determine what is "right" and what is "wrong" in terms of diets for dogs with different diseases. There are a number of nutritional philosophies for dealing with liver and kidney disease, and every owner can pursue the diet that works best for them and their dog.

In the future, it would be great if you could share your experiences with the board. People learn from one another here, and that link is lost when information isn't shared. Not everyone is willing to come forward on the board, and may instead "lurk", searching through the forum for information that may be helpful to them. Trying to share as much information as possible is what keeps this board informative and vibrant!

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