The Shar-Pei Forums-Health Behavior Diet & Rescue Info and Discussion Group

Hi there,

This is my first time posting here although I've been reading a lot or articles before and since getting my shar pei. We went to the vet for a checkup for the first time today, and it was a disaster! I can't begin to explain. My pei is six months old, and I got her at 5 months (she was supposed to be a show dog but had some minor imperfections so we got her late). She's been great in the first month, super smart, affectionate etc. She goes to doggy daycare for puppy (and people) socialization and is in a group obedience class. She's been a bit wary of the occasional person, but overall pretty happy to meet strangers. She goes everywhere with my partner and I to get a jumpstart on socialization: pet stores, people stores (if they'll have her), dog parks, hikes, friends' houses, patios etc. And she's been awesome! Friends also come visit her at our home and she's never been defensive. Yesterday however we had a plumber here and she growled a bit at him. I was able to get her to down-stay in her crate and eat as a distraction. It was a bit weird but she let it go.

Today at the vet she was fine in the waiting room with other people and dogs. However when we went back to get her weighed (which we'd done when we dropped in previously) she freaked out. The vet tried to touch her to put her on the scale and she backed up growling. She was fine when I picked her up to put her on the scale and had my hand on her. When we went to the exam room, it went downhill, she hid under a chair and growled constantly, even if she just heard him talking. She ran over to the vet a few times, sniffed him, and ran away growling again. He just kept talking louder over her growls, and trying to ignore her while talking to me. That did not work. Eventually I got her to do a sit stay and focus on me, but the vet couldn't examine her or look at her ear infection. He also made me feel awful, suggesting I "train" her (I can't express how well behaved she is on leash, on walks, at home etc.) and then maybe eventually strangers will be able to approach her slowly(totally disbelieving my insistence that they do all the time). He also said that socialization needs to take place before 16 weeks, so we'd basically screwed up by getting an older puppy and it would be an extreme challenge to socialize her the way we wanted to (i.e. to be friendly).

Phew! I got very anxious during the whole thing as well, she probably picked up on that. We got some meds and hopefully help her poor ears but what a no fun experience for all involved. I'm worried she'll be traumatized next time we go in or think that was appropriate behaviour. Does anyone have any similar experiences? I would think it was the vet's in general, but we've been in the waiting room and weigh room with other staff before with no issues. I'm wondering if it was the vet himself or if she's hitting an adolescent stage of some sort? And how to deal with non-stop growling like that (I waited until she was quiet, got her to do a sit-stay and rewarded her while she was quiet and sitting). She's okay at her dog daycare with all the people who work there, and our friends and family. And babies, and old people. You know, normally everyone! We're going to talk to our trainer at obedience class tomorrow but I was so exasperated I decided to post here until then. Thanks in advance for your time!

I am in the midst of a study on this behavior that I am going to submit for publication soon. I believe it is due to an aberrant biochemical pathway that can result in anxiety associated with separation, restraint and territorial issues in Shar-Pei. All of this gets triggered at the veterinarian's and I think it explains why many vets think the breed is (insert adjective here but it's not good). But the good news is that there is an approved drug that seems to block that pathway. Until I get the paper published, I cannot post detailed information here on the public forum (or the paper will face rejection). If you are interested in my findings and treatment that appears to be favorably helping, please email me privately at wvc@warwick.net. Thanks. ~ Linda

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Linda Tintle DVM
http://www.wvc.vetsuite.com

welcome! unfortunately this is a very common issue, most of my pei are not good patients, but they are wonderful with family and friends what area do you live in ? there is great advice/support on this forum

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Thanks for the quick replies. We're in Nova Scotia, Canada. I'm wondering if I should look into finding a more pei-friendly vet. Our vet tolerated it but I didn't appreciate feeling lectured and disbelieved about my otherwise great baby! Glad to know it's not just her!

Welcome. My heart goes out to you.
We are very fortunate to have Dr. Tintle here participating on this board.
I have three rescue shar pei. Two out of three have 'heightened' anxiety
and when triggered (vet visit; intense loud environments) they 'lash out'....it can be very scary to
someone who is not familiar with it.
(side note: one of my peis is deaf and it intensifies her anxiety)

Our vet uses a few techniques. He does not allow his staff to restrain our peis in usual methods.
He suggest a calming cap.
http://www.helpingfido.com/trainingaid-calming-cap.htm
He asks owners to practice with one instead of the alternative of muzzling.
He allows the owners to stay with the dogs.
For some reason they remain 'calmer'....less intense.
I have many other suggestions. Let me know if you need more.

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Thanks for the suggestions... The calming cap looks useful, we weren't to keen on the idea of having her sedated or muzzled. She wasn't restrained at the vet's (he didn't get to touch her let alone restrain her) and I was there the entire time (she hid behind me for most of the visit although I did try to step away). It was just very odd as she'd already been in the environment on prior occasions and happy as a clam (getting treats, attention etc.) but when she saw the vet it was a whole other story.

I train rescue dogs, so feel free to pm me questions galore.
We have a running joke (sorta not really a joke) that our big Tea and our Noodle
are always last appointment of the day at our vets office, because they turn into the "Cracken"
I am so happy to hear Dr. Tintle found a medical remedy. I will be jumping up and down
for help in that category.
Otherwise, I can tell you that we had to find a vet that completely respects the stress factor in shar pei
and are blessed to have found one. I feel so bad for so many owners who struggle with their vets
'ganging up' on the dog or tethering them....its not necessary.
Our vet works very closely with us and even assists in nail trimming, which seems to be a very vocal event
for shar pei also.
There are many ways to make the vet less stressful.

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i see two vets, i have one here in town dr. leja who helps if she has an ear infection, or needs a vacc. and i have another who is sharpei friendly and 1 1/2 hrs away. he does all of her examinations, deals with her f.s.f. and any hospital stays (surgerys) he is out of ct. dr.fickey.
they are both very nice, dr. leja has been my chihuahua's vet for almost 5 yrs. and for some reason lola will growl at her and snip at her. she always has to muzzle her. i dont really like the hard leather muzzle, but i understand its for her protection.

dr. fickey was the first vet lola went to when we got her and she is awesome with him. he can get right up in her mouth or ears and he has no worries. he has never had to muzzle her. in fact she just got spayed 2 weeks ago and before i left her dr. fickey asked if i thought she would be ok to get preped. i said yes. and dont you no when he called me to let me no how the surgery went he said he was very proud of her, and how well she was while being preped. and while being put to sleep for the surgery. he said she didnt put up a struggle at all. she stayed at the vets over night and when i picked her up the techs said she was awesome, she didnt bark at all or cry.

now poor dr. leja gets the brunt of lola for some reason, she is a very nice lady but for some reason lola wont let her touch her. idk maybe they choose their own dr. maybe lola just perfers dr. fickey, and for her there is no other dr that can touch her with out a fight. when we go into dr. lejas office lola starts flipping out, trying to get out of her harness, and out of that office, while at dr. fickeys office she is all over the place, going to get pats on the head from everyone, and looks for all eyes on lola.

im sorry you are going threw this, if you have to get her ears checked i would say muzzle her before the dr. comes in the room, the ear infection alone can make your peiby not want anyone to touch. and as we no the infection has to be delt with with the right antibiotics or it just comes back, or gets worse.

you are not alone i have felt your pain, but the vet knows, and as long as he is willing to be patient with your pei, then your peiby will get the med attention he/she needs. its embaressing isnt it, its like your 2 yr. old throwing a tempertantrum on the grocery store floor. lol. i was devestated when lola did it, but my vet reassured me that it was ok and we continued in a safe way for everyone. good luck, i sure hope this works out for your peiby, ear infections suck.

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Lola and Jenuine

I think how the vet approaches the dog is very important. I've owned 4 Pei and only had two bad experiences with a vet. Both were with my first Pei. One vet was very rough digging into his ears. Of course the dog is going to snap when pain is being inflicted. The second one was when a new trainee came into the room and immediately called for a muzzle when she looked at him. He picked up on the bad vibes and started barking at her. He never had to be muzzled for a vet visit. He had many different vets throughout his lifetime and was commented on his great behavior many times. I always insist on being with my dogs for examinations and talk to them very quietly during the exam. You said the vet was talking very loudly. That wasn't the best thing for him to do. Find another vet that your dog likes. Take her for visits just to say hello and get treats. I'm sure she will come around. I also find that many dogs do better with female vets. I know MeiLi doesn't like all men she meets and barks at them to let them know not to come too close. For some reason a lot of dogs have this hangup. Good luck, I'm sure things will improve.

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Leia 12/29/02 to 11/01/11 Will be forever missed.
MeiLi Birthdate 02/28/06

After reading your post I didn't like your vet! Amazing how smart these dogs are and how quickly they pick up people's vibes. You are doing a fantastic job socializing your dog. Your dog may have some issues but your vet didn't seem very professional or knowledgeable on the breed.
Kim

welcome to the forum! i am so sorry this happened. i work in a clinic with 2 doctors and some dogs do well with one, others do well with the other...one of the vets is pretty high energy and obnoxious. when he goes into a room with a dog he gets all excited and high pitched and then he wonders why the dogs back up and growl...the other one (my boss and MY vet) is really low key, he will go into the room and talk with the owners first and goes slow and the majority of "nervous" dogs seem to do better with him. he also does better with cats...dr highstrung is terrified of cats and they know it and will take advantage of the situation lol. anyway sorry to rant on, if i were you i would seek a vet who is pei friendly...pei have unique personalities and a vet who can understand that is worth their weight in gold.

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"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
--Ghandi

Thanks for all the replies, I'm feeling a bit better now. We're going to start looking for pei friendly (and female) vets tomorrow and see what we can do to work on this.

I was recalling an incident that led me to transfer our big Tea to our current vet.
I took little Diva to the same vet her whole young life, mainly because that particular
vet specialized in eyes for shar pei, and Diva had double cherry eye and ectropian issues.
When we adopted Tea, I took him there. The vet was and still is a great lady. Sadly,
her staff would often disregard the instructions the vet gave for handling our dogs.
On the second visit there our big Tea put on the brakes and did not want to go in at all.
I coaxed him in (regret that later) and he was pretty resistant during the entire visit.
I wanted to find out why. So I let them take him back to get weighed. I snuck through
and watched. I immediately identified the logic behind his resistance. The staff tethered
him to the wall to do the general physical and weighing.

So, I waited and took him home and shopped around and found our current vet, who is
very 'fearful dog friendly' as he puts it. Because he says peis are not completely unique
and that many large breed dogs are 'fearful' he swears that all 'wrinkled' breeds are particularly anxious
and has seen the escalated fear in mastiff, bulldogs, peis....etc.

He also completely allows the owners to stay with their dogs at all times. And rarely ever
waives his hands around. His whole staff are very knowledgeable about excited behaviors
triggering fear responses and that is a huge help. I like what jmanter suggested, also, take
the dog to a vet you like for 'happy' visits for simple things like a weigh in, and that will help
diffuse the anxious behavior for the major examinations and treatment visits.

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I can relate to this! Our pei is fine with vet techs and will greet them with a little tail wag. But as soon as his vet walks in (I think it's the lab coat??...b/c it's always been the vet regardless of which vet we go to) he starts barking and getting into a sort of bully stance. We muzzle him at the vet and that actually does help. And our vet is great and knows how to deal with him. She allows my husband to pick Enzo up and place him on the examining table, as well as hold him during the exam. Once the initial intro's are over, he's ok (though clearly stressed the entire time) and allows her to do whatever she needs to do. Vet visits aren't a favorite here - which is unfortunate b/c there are lots of them!:).

With the right vet, I'm sure your girl can do a lot better. You just need someone who understands the anxiety and doesn't rush into the appt.

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This list might help.
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13101&hilit=shar+pei+friendly+vet

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Penny

For her ears, a lot of us have had great luck with Zymox and Zymox plus. You can get it on Amazon. Just follow the directions on bottle.

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Penny

For her ears, a lot of us have had great luck with Zymox and Zymox plus. You can get it on Amazon. Just follow the directions on bottle.

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Penny

Genetics at work again!

Rumpy did the EXACT same thing. He was great with everyone! And for some reason he just doesn't like certain people at certain times. I think when the realize that they "have to do something" they freak when they are young. I also think that some vets don't know Peis very well, so they treat them like any other dog and almost forget they are skiddish, stand-off-ish guard dogs. To be honest, I think it's a Pei thing. You seem to have an excellent dog, and as Rumpy has seen the vet a couple of times now it has really helped. I have taken him in just a couple times to say "Hi" so he can get treats, not even for a check up. So when we go he is actually excited.

Only one of my dogs liked to go to the vets..Just loved the attention...Then one day he was about 2 he was having his nails clipped and he started having a fit squealing like a pig..I had them stop they were not happy..The thing was a lot of pei do not like to be restrained.....If they just put him on the floor he would be good as gold with just me holding his leash.

I found for dogs that hate having there nails done..I would put them on my bed shut door and massage them all over touching the feet but doing a whole body massage...I did it several times a week leading to touching the feet a little more....After weeks of this I just set the clippers on the bed but did not use or touch them just doing massage eventually I would touch clippers but not use them and tell the pei what a good boy he was with each massage.. One day during the massage I just clipped one two nails then stopped tell next time if he got concerned I stopped .It took time but will worth the effort.You can do the same thing with dogs that hate having there ears done or meds put in..Just massage around the ears while doing a whole body massage.
Taking time to make them feel comfortable before dealing with ears or feet.It's really about them getting to trusting you.
In your case He most likely did not like the vet..

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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/shar-peifsf

The more I am on this forum and read about vets reactions to pei, I appreciate my vet all the more. My pei have never enjoyed going to the vets. They have always been behaved though. But they can be stressed out and not themselves. Certainly a vet visit does not give a clear example of their personalities.
My vet is good with them and tells them they are good girls. He is respectful of their fearfulness and very kind to them.

We have a vet visit tonight, I will have to make sure to tell him how much I appreciate him.

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Like leesh training, potty training, or any other training; the vet visit is another place for training.

But other than medical issues, like Dr Tintle mentioned, your own axiety will set a Pei off. My wife gets nervous easily and has issues with high stress situation with Pei. Me, i am pretty laid back and doscile, there is nothing i cant/havent already delt with; so i dont get worked up very often. Brutus picks up on this and has learned, that if Dad is calm, he have no reason to be woried. But the second, i get worried, he knows and gets very alert and standoffish with people/dogs around us.

Brutus loves the vet and her assistant. they freely place their hands in his mouth to check his teeth, cuddle with him, take him for walks, etc.

Something worth a try, have the vet walk with you for a few minutes outside the office. Then pass the lead to the vet and keep walking. Few minutes later, stop walking and let the vet walk the Pei. Stay in eye sight so she knows its ok, but dont have anxiety or worry. Once she calms down, have the vet walk her into the office with you following behind them. This allows the dog to meet the vet on nuetral grounds, show that she isnt just there to poke or prod. Repeat the above backwards when you leave.

I worked on the above with Suki, it took a few times, but she got it. Sadly, if her vet wasnt working that day, it was a mess. But i learned a lot from her, it helped train Brutus so well. So, dont take it as a failure, take it as an opportunity for you both to learn about dealing with Vet visits. Oh, and it doesnt hurt to take your dog to the park after every vet visit.

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Brutus, born 12/12/10

Never forgotten...
- Suki 4/10/03 - 2/13/11
- Blade 12/1/01 - 9/28/10
- Zeus 3/19/96 - 6/1/99
- Cinnamon 6/8/93 - 4/19/96