The Shar-Pei Forums-Health Behavior Diet & Rescue Info and Discussion Group

Hi everyone,

I've been visiting the forum since a week before I got Buckley and have gotten endless awesome advice and support. Buckley is now 7 months old (we had him since 8 weeks) and he has been great up till today. We made sure to socialize him very early on- took him to puppy class, had (and still have) lots of people around the house, local dog park and hanging out with neighbors' dogs as well as friends' dogs. He has always been skiddish with people (which I'm okay with) and REALLY FRIENDLY with other dogs, never ever aggressive. Since I have no desire to breed him, I decided to neuter him a few weeks ago since I've learnt about all the benefits of neutering. He had lots of rest after and seemed to be in full recovery, we even took him on vacation and he was great!

However today, we took him to the usual dog park and granted, there were more dogs than normal because of the warm weather, but we walked in and he started growling, then climbed/ bit another dog! We were so shocked and immediately leashed him up and took him out of the park. I am nervous that this will be a new thing for him so I want to ask for your advice. He is still his normal self around the house.... and I'm 99% sure that he was not attacked by another dog since I am always there and he is not off leash with the exception of this one dog park, which we closely supervise. I know how some of you feel about dog parks.... but would appreciate any advice you have on how I should proceed. I want to nip this in the bud..... please advise.

THANK YOU and I apologize for the long build up but just wanted to make sure I provided sufficient background.

P.S My boyfriend keeps on thinking it has something to do with the neutering... but maybe he is just growing up and trying to exert his dominance?

There are several risks involved (both physical and psychological) with neutering, as well as neutering before full maturity. Sadly, everyone pushes the "benfits", but neglect to tell you about the risks.

http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf
http://www.helium.com/items/944809-the-risks-of-neutering-your-male-dog

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Brutus, born 12/12/10

Never forgotten...
- Suki 4/10/03 - 2/13/11
- Blade 12/1/01 - 9/28/10
- Zeus 3/19/96 - 6/1/99
- Cinnamon 6/8/93 - 4/19/96

Dog parks are a bad idea in my opinion. You never know who will show up, the level of training, energy or aggression in their dogs (and them) and this makes it too unstable, unpredictable and chaotic a dynamic to effectively manage this ever-changing forced pack behavior. If you want to socialize it is better to arrange private play dates with dogs/owners that you know and can trust in a place that is familiar and secure. Or maybe try some doggy daycare or even group obedience classes.

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Blessing's CSP
http://blessingssharpei.com

Sexual maturity happens between 6 to 12 months of age. It may be that it takes some time for the hormones to leave off his body.

However, all the normal psychological stages are still active in your dog. That means while his sexual maturity has been nixed, his maturity as an individual dog is still going on.

From the following website;

http://www.crbeagles.com/misc/puppy_characteristics.htm



It's time to take an active role in understanding and finetuning your place as Pack Leader. This would be a great time to enroll in an obedience class if you haven't done so. What you don't want to do is panic or tense up over this. None of this behviour is unusual, but your puppy is growing up.

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I agree. He will need a strong pack leader presence to curb the unwanted behavior.

Also, physical and psychological maturity happen at different times. Although a dog may be physically matured, doesn’t mean he is psychological matured. Just like humans, most boys are physically matured by 15, but not psychological mature until in the ealy 20's (or as my wife says, NEVER!)

_________________
Brutus, born 12/12/10

Never forgotten...
- Suki 4/10/03 - 2/13/11
- Blade 12/1/01 - 9/28/10
- Zeus 3/19/96 - 6/1/99
- Cinnamon 6/8/93 - 4/19/96

Yeah Jan, I agree that the dog park is a bad idea, there were some high energy dogs around there. He has been fine with all the neighborhood dogs but you guys all right in that we need to be a stronger pack leader. He is starting obedience class in July so hopefully I'll learn there as much he will. I've read Cesar's books but I can't make it work like he does.... I do try to be calm assertive at all times. I just feel like it doesn't always work for me....thanks for all the suggestions! I will keep you guys updated on his progress.

Consider it a lesson , and you are right to get on top of this. I don't feel the neuter was in any way even remotely a reason. It is difficult for any of use to know what energy the other dog was portraying and how Buck absorbed that, as a challenge, threat ect. Yes there are some drawbacks to spay /neuter but there are positives as well. The biggest being a responsible pet owner who is not allowing casual breedings. If you've never had to deal with a testosterone full male and what they won't do to mate or get to a female in heat,consider yourself lucky. I don't go to dog parks because I can't trust that others treat and feel the same as I do about my dog. We have play friends and plenty of free run in our backyard and the local golf course when not in use.

That's funny my wife says the exact same thing about me.

I am on the other side of the fence when it comes to dog parks, than most people here.

See, I want my dog to learn these life lessons at a young age; I want him to learn how to deal with dominant or rowdy dogs. I look at it this way - Would I tell my child that they could never go play at a park, because a bully might be there? No! I would want my child to learn how to deal with bullies so he knows how to handle them later in life. Why should my child never get to have fun because a bad kid might be there? Same goes for my dogs. Should we have to deal with unstable dogs or bad dog parents? No. But, life is never perfect of fair. Brutus has been to half a dozen different dog parks with tons of different dogs. He goes 3-4 times per week for about 2 hours at a time (it’s still nice and cool here in Seattle, so he doesn’t over heat). He has been doing this for about 5 weeks now and does great. He isn’t perfect, I have had to correct a few behaviors, but for the most part he is becoming a very balanced and trust worthy dog.

Yesterday was a perfect example of this. At an off leash dog park, 2 rowdy Boston Terriers were terrorizing any dog they could find. They would gang up on a dog, chasing it and nip at it. Some of the dogs didn’t know how to handle this and ran away yelping, making it worse – they made themselves a target. So the Boston’s kept after them until the dog left the area or a parent (owner) intervened. Brutus came into the area and they wanted to gang up on him. I didn’t step in, because I want Brutus to learn how to deal with dogs like these. He simply ignored them and slowly backed away. They pressed him again; he just ignored them again and refused to even acknowledge them (much like Daddy from Caesar Milan’s show does). The two dogs just walked away and looked for another victim. For the next two hours they were in the same area; the Boston’s never messed with Brutus again. Brutus played with other stable, more balanced dogs the rest of the time. If the Boston’s came over, he would just ignore them.

I know as a parent, we want to protect the ones we love. But I think sometimes we protect them so much that they never get to enjoy things because a few “bad apples” (bullies or unbalanced dogs). By sheltering them all the time, it will make it difficult for them to learn how to socialize with all dogs, not just one or two that you create play dates with.

Sorry, went off a rant there.

As for Buckley, you need to correct this behavior the second it happens. You want your dog to know that unless another dog attacks him, it is never acceptable to growl, show aggression or bite another dog. Self-defense is one thing. Being aggressive is completely different. A good technique is to snap him out of it with a tug of a leash or a hand bite (as Caesar puts it). Make him submit to the other dog. Don’t pull him away or leave the dog park like you did. I know it seems backwards, but this only reinforces the behavior. Make him lie on his back and allow the other dog to come sniff him. Make sure you keep a firm, but calm grip on him as to not allow him to get aggressive with the other dog as it comes close. By making him deal with the issue and not going away, he learns how to handle the situation. Hope it helps, and sorry for my rant above.

_________________
Brutus, born 12/12/10

Never forgotten...
- Suki 4/10/03 - 2/13/11
- Blade 12/1/01 - 9/28/10
- Zeus 3/19/96 - 6/1/99
- Cinnamon 6/8/93 - 4/19/96

Thanks for all your input, just an update- we took Buckley to a doggie social that his puppy school trainer holds in a much more controlled environment and he was completely fine. He was a little overwhelmed at the beginning and was growling but once he settled down, he was great! I'm just so relieved that it's not a consistently agressive thing but it's a lesson for me to learn how to assert myself as the pack leader too... we are going to be working on this. I was watching some past episodes of Dog Whisperer and will be continuing to work on this.
Forge, you are right that I have to teach him how to deal with this situation. The trainer gave me some tips too and I am hoping he will learn to deal with all sorts of energy too!

I hope everything goes well. After you get out of the puppy stage sometimes behavior and energy can change. That sounds like what has been happening. It also sounds like he may have some alpha in him. I also believe that a controlled setting is best. I would never go to a dog park. I would be afraid for the other dogs in the dog park, because my boys do not do well with lots of other dogs around. I always remember this rule of thumb: You can socialize and train early on, but when they hit the teenage years reenforcement is the key. That is one reason why I like having three dogs. They learn how to act in a pack, how to respond to the alpha dog in the pack, and learn behavior skills that they do not get to use just by themselves. I have always had better success with three dogs than with just one or two, I am also fortunate that my hubby is considered the alpha male of my house. He can say one command and they listen, but for them to listen to me I have to make my voice go very deep.

I also make sure I teach them command words. That way even if they get a little out of control in any situation they will here their command word and stop what they are doing.

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Peaches, Oscar, Pogo, and Luna
RIP Peaches 1-1998 - 3-2011

You know, some dogs just don't want to be around high energy in your face dogs. I am very careful to monitor who is at the dog park, to go at low frequency times and to leave when I see a dog who is too energetic for Cosmo. We don't go very often--maybe two times a month at the most. He is sensitive and reactive. We have worked with him and he is a thousand times better but why put him in a situation that I know he will be stressed?

We still go to the dog park just pick and choose carefully and I am ready to step in or distract him from a situation that I think could get out of hand. I whistle and then walk off in the other direction. He follows and we have a walk around the perimeter (that way the call off isn't a punishment but he gets a reward of the walk and exploration). Then I decide whether to stay or leave. My Kaia can be the high energy in your face dog at times. I do the same with her if I see her escalating. Call off and walk around the park. So I have one sensitive one (who when pushed will growl and air snap), and one of the pushy ones (play with me, Play with me PLAY WITH ME NOW!). LOL One stop dog park shopping at my house. I also have the laid back snif snif yawn pei version as well.

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Toni- Cosmo, Pei-le and Kaïa's mom

I, too, am pro dog park - as long as you know the risks.

The biggest risks are unvaccinated dogs and dogs with bad behavior (sort of like bad and unisured drivers on the road).

There are many benefits. A dog park is a great option if you have no yard or have limited ability to take long walks to exercise your dog. If you expect your dog to go with you many places (restaurants, shopping, hiking, etc) where they are exposed to strangers and strange dogs, the dog park is a great place to get them socialized. I believe it is great for them to learn to pick up cues from other dogs they dont know.

Now, I am not diminishing the risks....but they could just as easily get exposed to dogs with health issues or bad behavior on your own street....

just my 2 cents.

All interesting thoughts, It's really a personal decision and how well you know your dog and how to direct as well.

I think the key is that we learn how to be the pack leaders for Buckley and then the rest is more a personal choice.

Yes, thats correct, in a nutshell!

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A very good point! Some owners dont take thier dogs to parks because they cant control their behavior.

_________________
Brutus, born 12/12/10

Never forgotten...
- Suki 4/10/03 - 2/13/11
- Blade 12/1/01 - 9/28/10
- Zeus 3/19/96 - 6/1/99
- Cinnamon 6/8/93 - 4/19/96